Downtime Activities Leveled Up: A Comparative Review of A5E and D&D 5E
Over the past couple of posts, I have done a deep dive into Downtime Activities in D&D 5E. We started off with the Dungeon Master’s Guide and Player’s Handbook rules, and looked at the basic system that D&D started off with in 2014. We then moved onto looking at the updated rules from Xanathar’s Guide to Everything, which brought structure, order, and complications to the existing Downtime Activities, as well as some new ones. All that said and done, I have found one more area that I want to look into for Downtime Activities: Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition, or A5E.
EN Publishing created Advanced 5th Edition for the simple goal of creating a system similar to Dungeons and Dragons 5th Edition, but with some changes to the rules. This system could avoid a lot of the challenges that 5th Edition faces. While I have not done a full review of A5E (maybe I should? You let me know), I have seen a lot from the system and find it interesting. Since the goal of A5E is to make a better system, I wanted to see what changes they made to Downtime Activities.
(Art: Magic the Gathering by John Severin Brassell)
On a note, an individual brought this idea to my attention on BluSky. While I was talking about my last two posts, they suggested looking into these rules. After reviewing, I found it warranted another RAW Review on Downtime Activities. Glad I got the tip!
Defining Terms
Starting off our review of the A5E’s “Between Adventures” section, we have a lot of terms to keep in mind. While certain ones will come up in individual activities, I wanted to touch on the big elements here. Since this is a system separate from D&D 5E, talking about some of them will help to make the rest more understandable.
Downtime
The A5E rules start off by defining Downtime as the period spent between adventures. It gives examples of what the developers could define as Downtime, and the example of “a period spent traveling” stood out to me as unique. The official 5E material just defines Downtime as “time between adventures” leaving that up to the DM to determine. To be quite honest, I have never thought of long periods of travel time, measured in days instead of hours, a potential area of Downtime.
Lifestyle
Similar to 5th edition, A5E defines Lifestyle as how an adventurer lives between quests, whether they choose a lavish lifestyle or opt (or are forced) into a more modest one. Lifestyle expenses cost a certain amount of gold. While 5E has 7 options, ranging from Wretched to Aristocratic, A5E has 3: Poor, Moderate, and Rich. Each has a cost of living attributed to it, with A5E offering more price breakdowns if needed at the table.
| Lifestyle | Meal Cost | Example Meal | Lodging Cost | Daily Living Expenses | Prestige |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Poor | 5 cp | Mug of ale, hunk of bread, bowl of vegetable stew, and a small hunk of cheese. | 1 sp | 2 sp | -1 |
| Moderate | 4 sp | Mug of ale, turkey leg, cheese wedge, and an apple. | 6 sp | 1 gp, 5 sp | 0 |
| Rich | 1 gp | Roast pheasant, glass of wine, pork sausage links, and a fruit tartlet. | 3 gp | 5 gp | +1 |
| Lifestyle | Price/Day |
|---|---|
| Wretched | - |
| Squalid | 1 sp |
| Poor | 2 sp |
| Modest | 1 gp |
| Comfortable | 2 gp |
| Wealthy | 4 gp |
| Aristocratic | 10 gp minimum |
Another key difference in Lifestyle Expenses is how A5E addresses it. In A5E, the Narrator (their term for Game Master) can provide advantage or disadvantage on Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma checks. This is based on how others perceive the character. A poor lifestyle individual may struggle in certain areas that a rich lifestyle has an advantage in. This appears to focus on Social activities, and I think that a few Downtime Activities would have this happen.
Downtime Period
Advanced 5th Edition determines the time needed to resolve a Downtime Activity, called a Downtime Period, similar to the rules in XGTE. A character can attempt one downtime activity per week of downtime in a Downtime Period. This comprises 5 days, noted as a week, where the adventurer is engaging in 8 hours of their chosen activity. Like the official D&D material, A5E does note that the days in a downtime period do not need to be sequential, though it does not limit this to a total period of equal to or less than double the time required, as XGTE requires.
Downtime Activities
Now that we have some concepts from A5E down, we can start looking into the specific Downtime Activities provided by this system. As I review these options (in the order presented in the A5E online tools), I will compare them to the D&D 5E rules, if applicable.
Crafting
Adventurers can choose the Crafting activity in order to make weapons, armor, tools, clothing, other equipment, or art. In order to craft an item, an adventurer will need to be proficient in the tools needed as well as provide the materials necessary. A lot of the following costs and DCs all have to do with quality, a trait for items in A5E.
| Quality | Time | DC | Materials | Production Cost | Sell Price | Benefit |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Poor | Half | 10 | x1/8 | - | Half | Gains the Broken condition after each use |
| Normal | Base | 15 | x1/4th | - | Up to full | - |
| Fine | Double | 20 | x1/2 | +25 gp | At least full price | Can be enchanted to become a magic item of up to uncommon rarity |
| Masterwork | Triple | 25 | x1 | +125 gp | No less than double full price | Never has damage vulnerabilities, and can be enchanted to become a magic item of any rarity |
Crafting a Poor quality item costs an eighth of the base price. This item seems to break after each use. The Masterwork item, which can be enchanted like items in older D&D editions, has a full price plus an additional 125 gp.
Sell price is also determined by the quality. A poor item will be worth half (unless your character engages in some shady business practices) while a Masterwork item will be “no less than double the cost”.
| Item | Craft Time |
|---|---|
| Dual-wielding weapon* | 2 per week |
| Martial or simple weapon* | 1 week |
| Heavy weapon* | 2 weeks |
| Ammunition | 50 per week |
| Light armor | 1 week |
| Medium armor | 2 weeks |
| Heavy armor | 4 weeks |
| Tool or equipment | 2 per week |
| *RARE WEAPONS MAY REQUIRE LONGER CRAFTING TIMES DETERMINED BY THE NARRATOR. | |
The time taken to create the object also depends on the quality of the item involved, ranging from Half the time for a Poor quality item to triple the time for a Masterwork quality item. So, for example, if a player wanted to make a piece of Heavy Armor, that has a Craft Time of 4 weeks. To make a better item, it will take an extra 4-8 weeks, and only 2 weeks for a Poor quality one (though good luck seeing that last an adventure!). Keep in mind that the Narrator might extend the time needed for Rare Weapons.
At the end of the required time, the character makes a check based on the desired quality level of the item, which can slightly increase if they used a special material (which deserves its own discussion). Upon success, the character finishes the item and uses up the materials. If unsuccessful, the item's quality level decreases by one, but the character can salvage the materials. On a failure of over 5, however, they lose the ability to salvage the item.
Compared to 5E
The A5E Crafting Activity deviates a lot from the crafting rules in Xanathar’s Guide to Everything. Advanced 5th Edition (A5E) has a specific amount of time allocated for creating certain types of objects, with a potential for the Narrator to increase it, whereas in 5E, the developers directly linked the time to the item's cost. For mundane items, I feel like the Craft Time makes more sense in A5E, but for rare items (such as magic items) I feel like the time needed is nebulous.
A5E’s Quality system also provides an interesting element to crafting a weapon or armor. With a player able to spend more time to make a better product, this benefits individuals who have a large period and want to get a superior product. If the character absolutely needs something faster, they can choose to make a poor quality item. If an attacking army is one week out and the adventurer needs to have that sword, they can make one that will probably last them the adventure, and not much longer.
Besides the quality, I like that there are rules for using special materials. 5th edition avoids this only offering adamantine and mithral items. But instead of taking longer, it makes the crafting process more difficult.
Testing none of these options out at the table, I think I like A5E’s option. I understand why 5E went the route it did, and think that it does a good job of streamlining this Downtime Activity, but I think A5E has a more satisfying set of choices
Gather Information
Art: Magic the Gathering by Iris Compiet
Adventurers looking to uncover secrets will take this activity. Whether its an individual, event, or other item that “still exists within living memory”, characters can attempt to find any secure or secret information through this option.
The time taken, DC of the check, and cost of gathering information are all dependent on Obscurity, which ranges from Uncommon to Secret and is laid out in the table below. Characters will make an Investigation check against this DC.
| Obscurity | DC | Time | Cost | Examples |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Uncommon | 10 | 1 week | 10 gp | The bar where a local crime boss conducts business, where a local noble likes to drink |
| Esoteric | 15 | 2 weeks | 25 gp | The name of the best fence in a particular city, where to go to get illicit magic ingredients |
| Hidden | 20 | 3 weeks | 100 gp | The location of the duke’s secret prison, the name of a dragon’s agent in a city |
| Secret | 25 | 5 weeks | 500+ gp | The identity of the leader of a guild of assassins, what the king keeps in the secret room below his chambers |
On a success, the character learns what they are looking for along with a point of Key Knowledge (explained below). Succeeding the roll by a score of 5 or higher above the DC grants an additional fact. Failure gives the character nothing, while failing by over 5 gives an incorrect information.
Key Knowledge, the item given on a success, represents additional clues or insights about the subject a character was looking into, and is specific to a particular subject. Players can spend these points to gain advantage on an attack roll or ability check made in relation to the subject. So they can be thought of as (in D&D terms) very specific points of inspiration. With the GM's discretion, players can also use them to introduce a small fact into the story. This turns Key Knowledge into improvisation points, allowing a playing to buy in for a “Yes, and” element during the game.
As a final note, Gather Information specifies that a GM may determine there is simply no way that this activity can glean a particular piece of information. If so, the player will be made aware before attempting the activity, to avoid a pointless attempt.
Compared to 5E
Looking at the research action, and we get a more streamlined Downtime Activity in Advanced 5E than we do in D&D. Reviewing the Research Downtime Activity, information does not have any noting how obscure the knowledge is, instead focusing on a roll to determine how many pieces of lore they get. The results are increased by the time and money spent, to a maximum of +6. Compared to A5E’s results, which will give two pieces of lore, I find XGTE potentially too much for especially skilled characters.
The A5E table also gives examples for each level of information, which helps the GM pick a level to use. This is like how Xanathar’s describes Lore, though their use of the term is a bit more basic.
Looking at the definition of Lore in 5E, it functions similarly to the base success result for Gathering Information in A5E. I felt like Lore had a lot of potential but I never really used it past this Downtime Activity, and I think Key Knowledge is an interesting idea.
I am undecided on which method I prefer. Both options have their benefits and drawbacks.
The D&D 5E option is familiar to me, and provides a route that almost always provides at least a minor success for an individual engaging in Research as compared to the DC based option in A5E, but offers way more rewards than I would prefer. Both options have ways to change the roll built, though Advanced 5th Edition’s method is less obvious. Going back to Lifestyle Expenses, this would be a great place to potentially add Advantage or Disadvantage based on the character’s lifestyle. A Wizard seen relaxing with important nobles and political figures will have an easier time than one that looks like they just crawled out of the nearest mud puddle.
I think XGTE provides the most player agency with the ability to spend more time and money, though that might be mathematically worse than just reattempting the Downtime Activity.
Recovery
One of the simplest options provided, a player can spend a week recovering from their last adventure. The only requirement is that a player maintain a moderate lifestyle or greater for the week spent relaxing. For each week spent recovering, a character may:
Make a Constitution saving throw against one effect that is preventing them from regaining hit points.
Make one additional saving throw against one disease or poison currently affecting them.
The only way to change these rolls is if the character is being tended to by someone with a healer’s satchel (and proficiency, I am assuming), which I imagine would either require another player or a hireling.
Compared to 5E
Comparing to D&D’s Relaxation activity, they are fairly close. Both require a full week and need the character to maintain a certain lifestyle. Referring to the rules on downtime activities, both have it built in that a character must be doing this and nothing else.
5E's relaxation provides a much greater benefit than A5E, and I wonder if this arises due to a difference in the structure of effects, diseases, and poisons (perhaps another article?). Looking at Xanathar’s Guide to Everything, a week of relaxing gives a character advantages on all saving throws to recover from long-acting diseases and poisons as well as allowing a character to end one effect that keeps them from regaining hit points or restoring one ability score that has been reduced.
A5E just offers a chance to resolve these issues, one that a healer can improve with their help. While I am normally one who likes a game then leans towards Gritty Realism, at a glance I don’t know if this merely reinforces the danger of lingering injuries from adventuring or potentially forces characters into longer periods of inactivity for the sake of realism.
Overall, I lean towards Xanthar’s rules here. I admit I would want to see A5E in action make a final verdict, but my gut leans towards 5E’s nicer rules.
Religious Devotion
(Art: Magic the Gathering by Pauline Voss)
Characters wanting to devote some time to appease a god and earning favor in the process can choose Religious Devotion. Characters must have access to some place of worship for the deity they have chosen, be it a shrine, temple, or other sacred site.
A character must spend an amount of gold specified by the Religious Devotion table, based on their alignment with the deity in question. The character will then make a Nature or Religion check based on the DC, which earns the character points of Favor. A success is worth 1 point, with an additional for every additional 5 above the DC.
Favor allows for a minor but helpful boon that aligns with the deity in question. Examples A5E presents are a war domain deity allowing a character to find their weapon, or a nature domain deity allowing for an easier time making camp in the wilderness. The game intentionally leaves any specific details on the boon to the GM. players may spend 2 favor points to get the benefit from a 1st level spell that would be in the deity’s domain.
As a final note, a character will lose any favor points with a deity if they act against their interests or philosophy during an adventure.
Compared to 5E
D&D 5E’s Religious Service downtime activity compares here, and is similar in layout to the Research downtime action, where players make a roll and it determines the amount of resources they gain, this time favor. While favor maxes out at 2, the general concept is the same. XTGE mentions they can provide a minor miracle or intervention from the deity in question, but also could take the form of help from the temple (or other religious structure) in which the character performed the activity. To me, this expands the utility of this ability, adding the mortal element to something religiously focused.
A5E does a better job of providing examples for both Favor usage and for providing different difficulties based on how aligned a character might be, though I could see that being a double-edged sword. A cleric or paladin whose sworn to follow a Light Domain deity might always make these checks with the lowest possible DC, and continually accumulate Favor for a minimal cost. At higher levels, I could see this getting powerful. Advanced 5th Edition does not provide any limit to the amount of Favor one can accumulate, while XGTE have a limit based on Charisma.
Again, I am undecided, but I lean towards what I know. I will admit I am very tempted to implement the A5E rules just to get a taste for what they are like, and how it changes up the act of devotion for a character.
Research
In A5E, there's a clear distinction between the 'Research' option and 'Gather Information.' The primary difference lies in the type of information each action uncovers. While 'Gather Information' taps into living memories, 'Research' delves into the annals of recorded history.
| Obscurity | DC | Time | Cost | Examples |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Uncommon | 10 | 1 week | 10 gp | The original name of a particular village |
| Esoteric | 15 | 2 weeks | 25 gp | The original owner of a piece of land or business, the location of an ancient tomb |
| Hidden | 20 | 3 weeks | 100 gp | The true history of the founding of a dynasty, the real lineage of the local ruler |
| Secret | 25 | 5 weeks | 500+ gp | The name of a fiend, the location of a city destroyed by the gods in the last age |
The only other difference I found was the requirements for Research. Unlike Gathering Information, Research requires a library or libraries that might contain the information in question.
As a final note, GMs can choose to waive a fee if a character would have access to the library already.
Compared to 5E
My thoughts on Gathering Information apply to here as well, though I am conflicted on both Gathering Information and Research existing separately from one another.
On the one hand, I like that these are two separate actions that are taken. This means that players will need to be more specific in their goals, which may lead to challenges or benefits depending on what they have available. This also defines the information in question in two separate ways. Living Knowledge vs Ancient Knowledge provides a nice difference between the two.
I feel like this could have easily been a subsection of Gather Information. In the style of Xanathar’s Guide to Everything, I might want this to be a variant rule to Gathering Information. You would explain the differences, but overall, everything else remains the same.
Spellcraft
Art: Magic the Gathering by Svetlin Velinov
Under the Spellcraft section, spellcasting characters have an opportunity to use their downtime crafting unique and rare spells. A player picks a common version of a spell their character knows, and chooses a modification from the Modification Table (though the book specifies that GMs can provide a rare spell listed elsewhere).
| Modification | DC Modifier | Effect |
|---|---|---|
| Altered Effect | +0 | The spell's primary effect is changed. This can be used to add or alter a spell's damage type, affect what the spell targets, or otherwise modify its core effect. Examples include an invisibility spell that targets objects instead of creatures, a fireball that deals cold damage, or a lightning bolt that has a cone area. |
| Lingering Effect | +1 | The spell has a secondary effect that occurs after the spell has ended. Examples include a fireball that causes the target to take ongoing fire damage or a slow spell that leaves a target fatigued after its duration has ended. |
| Additional Effect | +2 | An additional effect is added to the spell’s primary function. Examples include an ice storm that freezes a target in place for the duration. |
| Additional Target | +2 | The spell has the means to target additional creatures. Examples include a paralyzing effect that spreads by touch or a suggestion to new targets through conversation. |
Once the effect is chosen, characters must make an Arcana check using the attribute they use for casting (Druids use Wisdom, Wizards use Intelligence, and Muscle Wizards use Strength), while also adding the modifier from the effect to the DC listed. The Base DC is listed on the Rare Spell Crafting table, which specifies the DC, Cost Per Week, and Number of Successful Study Weeks needed.
This means that if a Wizard wanted to add an ongoing fire effect to Fireball, a third level spell, it would take 4 successful checks at DC 18, with each week costing 200 gp in resources. A success by 5 or more gives double the weeks for completion. A failure uses the week and resources while not increasing progress, while failing by 5 also loses a week of progress.
The book also notes that characters can create entirely new spells, but it takes at least 2 months per spell level and 500 gold per spell level every week. So this means that for a 3rd level spell, our imaginary Wizard would need 6 months of downtime and 1500 gp per week, for 36,000 gold. So while not entirely impossible, this makes creating a new spell quite difficult.
Compared to 5E
Dungeons and Dragons 5th Edition does not have specific rules around modifying or making spells, but One D&D did toy with the idea as a Wizard Class feature. The idea was part of the class’ abilities and required both gold and time. If you want to read about it more, you can here.
When I reviewed the idea, I felt it was overly complicated and could make game-breaking situations. Wizards might, with a little time and money, create spells that broke the rules of D&D, creating a mess for DMs. This method seems a bit more balanced, instead requiring lots of time and money. This competes with the wizard’s normal need for paper and ink.
I would be interested in trying this out in my game. I almost always have a spellcaster whose player wants them to make their own spells. While often it is just the name, I feel like this would give a structure for doing additional features, and provide a concrete investment.
Training
For characters keen on learning or swapping a class feature, training is the way. Costs and durations vary.
For instance, gaining a new language or tool proficiency? That's a duration calculated as 12 months minus the character's Intelligence modifier. Plus, they'll owe 50 gold monthly for a tutor. Can't afford it? They'll need an alternative tutor source or double the training time.
Weapon proficiencies take a number of months equal to 6 minus their Strength or Dexterity score, and 50 gp per month to retain a tutor.
Relearning (swapping class features) does not require gold, but a certain amount of time based on the level the feature was obtained. 1st-5th takes 1 week, 6-10th takes 2 weeks, 11th-15th takes 3, and 15-20th takes 4 weeks. This cannot allow a wizard to swap spells already scribed into a spellbook.
If a player wants to change a feat, they must spend 8 - their Proficiency Bonus months and 50 gp per month to replace it.
Changing an Archetype (subclass) takes 12 weeks and no cost, after which they change their subclass. Changing Class requires powerful magic.
Compared to 5E
D&D’s rules only allow for a language or tool proficiency to be added. That takes 25 gp per workweek and a number of weeks equal to 10 - their Intelligence Modifier. This is a more limited, and also simpler, Downtime Activity. I can see the benefits and drawbacks between the two.
On one hand, keeping these rules simple avoids any accidental power creep. A well-rounded player cannot work to soak up additional options through time, allowing them to overshadow others. While most of the more powerful options only allow for swapping, this allows for a character to amass a decent amount of power. It also means that the entire process of training will be quick and simple. With limited options, the training process becomes quicker.
On the other, the A5E option provides a nice wealth of options that feels like it will benefit all players. The weapon proficiency being tied to Strength or Dexterity feels especially useful (though I think it should be based on the modifier used by the weapon).
I think I would definitely want to use A5E's training options as they have written them.
Work
Players looking to earn some money during their downtime have the 'Work' option in A5E. The system categorizes work into two main types:
Legal Work - This encompasses professions or trades.
Illegal Work - This involves activities that are, well, not exactly above board, like crime.
Both use the same table for determining costs. Despite the type of work, both characters will spend a week working and make a check based on their chosen lifestyle. On a successful check, the character supports their chosen lifestyle, and earns the gold listed in the table.
| Difficulty | DC | Lifestyle | Earnings |
|---|---|---|---|
| Easy | 10 | Poor | 1d6 gp |
| Average | 15 | Moderate | 3d6 gp |
| Hard | 20 | Rich | 6d6 gp |
| Very Hard | 25 | Rich | 10d6 gp |
If a character fails their Legal work, they must pay to support their lifestyle and make no earnings. If the results are a 5 or less, a character earns nothing and has disadvantage on their next attempt to work.
Illegal work has some slightly different failures. Failing by a 5 or more means a character cannot take downtime activity for the following week, and failing by 10 or more results in the character being caught, the consequences left up to the GM.
Compared to 5E
This Activity is another place where I think I prefer 5E. The Work downtime activity is more cut and dry for Legal work. Characters just roll an appropriate check, determining whether their lifestyle is covered. Illegal work has its own activity, Crime, which has a wonderful set of mechanics tied to it. The mechanics feel a bit more tied into the concept of crime, and I like that.
A5E does a better job of providing some sort of benefit for working. D&D Work has a tiny chance of giving a small amount of gold, and that is it. At the most, a character's lifestyle is the only thing covered. In A5E, any success provides a certain amount of coin.
As a passing note, I find it funny that the mechanics equate lifestyle expenses to the difficulty of the work done. Mechanically, this makes sense, but as a social commentary (especially recently) this gave me a chuckle.
Other Key Differences
While Advanced 5E offers an array of features, there are certain aspects from D&D’s Downtime Activities that it misses. One prominent feature that caught my attention is 'Complications'. As I talked about in my previous post on Xanathar’s Downtime rules, the rewrite brought a chance for many of the Downtime Activities to have an unexpected result.
Often a 10% chance, this would cause some sort of negative effect that would either add flavor to the story or create a situation the player has to resolve. This balanced out any particularly powerful Activities, giving a risk vs reward system.
However, this draws out the act of Downtime. Since for a complication, it introduces more rolling during the downtime process. If a complication happens, then it will pause normal game play while the player resolves their action. This might even spill over into the main game, potentially causing unforeseen consequences.
Conclusion
The Advanced 5th Edition offers a fresh spin on the D20 system, making it feel both familiar yet distinct from D&D 5E. It often opts for streamlined rules over 5E's intricate systems, favoring quick gameplay over intricate simulation. This approach presents its own set of challenges, such as less predictable rewards and built-in risk factors. While I appreciate many of A5E's adjustments, I believe D&D 5E has the edge in terms of organization. For instance, A5E's consolidation efforts, like bundling Legal and Illegal work, can sometimes create ambiguities.
However, it's worth noting that every game system will have its proponents and critics. Perhaps there are facets of A5E that resonate more with other players or might even become more appealing with repeated play. I'm intrigued by the A5E system and believe it could provide a unique and potentially interesting alternative to what 5E offers. What do you think? Are you inclined to try out the Advanced 5th Edition or stick to the tried-and-true D&D 5E? Let's discuss in the comments below.
